Welton Academy is a cult! : A prophetic call for discernment concerning Jonathan Welton

I have very serious concerns about Welton Academy led by Jonathan Welton and I can not be quiet. It would be sinful for me to say nothing as a prophetic voice when heresy is being promoted that is clear as day. This is not a difference of opinion. This is blatant heresy.

The truth is that many people are mutual friends of Jonathan and me. This makes me a little slow to speak to protect those relationships but at the end of the day, the New Testament makes it very clear that we are to deal with heresy directly and mark false teachers.

It is important to understand that I love the move of the Holy Spirit, pray in tongues daily, have received ministry from people like John Arnott and Bill Johnson, and was re-generated on the floor of the Brownsville Revival. I am not some anti-Charismatic “heresy hunter.”

However, there is no way around passages like For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” (1 Timothy 4:3-4) 

Welton Academy brand of Eschatology

There are some very serious issues when ministries make a joke out of the soon coming of the Lord. This is not something to take lightly and this is not just a difference of opinions. For example, Mike Bickle and I strongly disagree on the timing of the catching up but we both hold it will happen. Jonathan Welton does not and actually markets himself as “raptureless.”

You say why is this an issue? Because the New Testament warns us about people that do not believe that Jesus is return to take His Bride to Heaven. All through the scriptures and by several writers is this concern of people who mock Jesus coming back.

Among other things, Welton Academy believes that the old covenant was fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. This is not scriptural. When the veil was ripped at the death of Christ, we entered into the new covenant and the age of grace. I am not sure how someone could bring the book of Acts was happening under the law of Moses.

It get worse from there. He also teaches there will be no Anti-Christ but it is a prophetic imagery for the second century heresy known as Gnosticism. (see why IHOPKC is not Gnosticist) This is complete nonsense. There will be a leader rise up out of Eastern Europe that carries political and spiritual charisma that inspires naive people. In all likelihood, it will be a priest out of the Roman Catholic Church.

Make sure to join our NEW Facebook group about Pentecostal Eschatology from a revival point of view!

Welton Academy also teaches that Matthew 24 is completely fulfilled when the fall of the Holy City happened. That short window of time was the Tribulation period for the saints and everything is perfect now. We are passed the time of testing and we need to rejoice that we were born thousands of years later and on the other side of the planet.

There is many problems with this thinking but I want to give one very clear reason. Matthew 24:14 remains unfulfilled. There was people that the early church did not know even exist in the world in 70AD. People were already living in North America that most of the world’s population did not even know was there.

Jonathan Welton and “optimism”

This is where some of the teaching of Welton Academy is downright offensive. He actually believe anyone who disagrees with him does not eschatology of optimism. He is harping on that belief in any form of pre-millennism is “escapism.” This is dead wrong and as I said offensive to 500 million people who believe in Pentecost.

I openly reject any and all forms of doom and gloom teaching that the world is just to going to hell and we were lucky enough to be saved from it until the Jesus catches up in the Blessed Hope. That view is wrong. I agree that this teaching that we are some type of victim of war waiting for the Savior to come extract us is almost heretical.

As a Pentecostal, I can tell you that the early followers from Azusa Street (and other outpourings) believe in the glorious and victorious End Time Church that was about the harvest. Almost every newsletter from every publication in the historical achivites up to about 1935 spoke of a great coming revival.

Somewhere around that time, a new generation of Pentecostals came up that did not have a direct experience during the Azusa Street Revival and started to teach doom and gloom more and some escapism did exist.

The bottom line is many people believe in a great harvest in the last days and believe in pre-millennism. It is not just me. Smith Wigglesworth, Aimee Semple McPherson, Oral Roberts, T.L. Osborn, Steve Hill and Mike Bickle are a few names that would join that list.

Encourage each other for time for short

In 1 Thessalonions 4, we read about the catching up the saints when the Lord comes for His Bride. This is clearly NOT the fall of Jerusalem. This is where the Jesus comes and died in Christ rise first then those who are living are taken home. There is no way you can apply this to the infamous 70AD cop out.

In verse 17, we read that “we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.” We will meet Jesus in the air and we will dwell with Him forever. This is not some siege of a city in anyway, shape or form.

However, in the next verse, we read a directive that is very important to us and why people like Jonathan Welton are so dangerous. It tells us to, ” Therefore encourage one another with these words.” We can not encourage each other with the hope of the catching up of the saints if we believe we missed the whole thing by over 1,900 years.

Jonathan Welton is a false teacher

I have no choice but to say with biblical knowledge that the leader of Welton Academy is a false teacher and his teachings are completely heretical. I wish I could find another way to welcome his ideas in the name of diversity of thought concerning the last things. However, the New Testament is very clear that his ideas are anti-Christ in nature.

It is my prayer that Jonathan repents of his error, turns to people who will address his doctrinal issues, and is restored gently to the people of faith. It would be a journey but I am not sure he is willing to repent of being a false teacher at this point.

Believers should use much caution when receiving from Jonathan Welton. This is especially true of his eschatology material.

  • Ken
    February 25, 2018 - 7:46 am

    The Scofield bible has led many astray already today,

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    • Azusa Report
      February 25, 2018 - 2:02 pm

      I agree. While I do agree with the Pre-Trib view of scripture, there is some extremes in what Scofield preached.

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    • Pastor D
      November 9, 2018 - 12:38 am

      Jonathon Welton is a false teacher and heretic. Years ago, his Facebook page stated that 2 angels came to him and told him that they were going to share a revelation with him that would revolutionize the church. Thus ‘Raptureless” was birthed. If you follow his teachings you will fall into false doctrine on every level.

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  • Charlie Ford
    March 20, 2018 - 11:24 am

    I have a question. Have you done biblical thing and spoken with Johnathan personally, before publicly calling him a heretic? Have you listening to his teaching before calling him that. I’ve listened to a teaching this week where he says that he believes in a Rapture, the second coming of JESUS and the resurrection. His point with “Raptureless” is that, the (what many people think is yet to come) Tribulation has already happened. That’s all. That’s a long way from heresy. He agrees on the main points of Christianity. Whether the Tribulation has already happened or not is no reason to call someone a heretic.
    Greeting from Euskirchen, Germany,
    Charlie Ford

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    • Azusa Report
      March 20, 2018 - 3:09 pm

      I have tried to reason with him and did reach out to him. He would not discuss things with me and blocked me. My door remains open to discussion with him. There is many tribulation but the “great” one is futuristic. He has major issues when it comes to eschatology. He is also dishonest about both the development of Partial Preterism and Pre-Millenialism. Partial Preterism in only 400 years old. It was NOT developed for most of the history of the Church.

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    • mark d scott
      September 23, 2018 - 4:57 am

      It is very clear that this man is not only a heretic but a sexual abuser. Were you aware that Mr. Welton was addicted to pornography when he wrote the Seer book? See the book Eyes of Honor and you will get the tine frame.
      This man has done much damage to the body of Christ with the new revelations of him abusing women in his ministry and being under restoration that was hidden from the Church he has walked away. People like yourself allowed this false teacher to spread like wild fire. You are the responsible party and now this leaven is being purged.

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      • Azusa Report
        September 23, 2018 - 4:49 pm

        People like me? I confronted him in July 2017, over a year ago.

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        • mark scott
          September 23, 2018 - 5:09 pm

          Actually, I thought your blog was balanced. When I used the word YOU it was meant for the leaders that were covering for him not you. I read some of the stuff that people said about you and I am sorry that you were marginalized. It took courage to follow your conscience and to speak out I found a thread in which Jim Weis defended him and the whole bunch of people did personal attacks against you. This is what happens when their is mixture it causes division. I just want to say that many of these people are good people like Mr. Weis but they are promoting very sketchy teachings. This is not the first time that charismatic teachers have been followed blindly when I say charismatic I do not mean spirit filled but persuasive. This falling of Welton must be used to reform and warn people to stay clear of the false teachings

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    • mark scott
      September 23, 2018 - 5:01 pm

      Dr Jonathan Welton called out by Danny Silk and Eric Gregson for sexually abusing women
      Whats a student at Welton but after this I don’t know what to think!
      Eric Gregson is speaking in the video
      Danny Silk’s letter to us:
      To the Welton Academy students, River Credentialed Community & Leaders, and select leaders in relationship with either Jonathan Welton or Welton Academy,
      I’ve been involved up close and person in a recent situation with Jonathan Welton. I’ve been working closely with a recently assembled advisory board comprised of people I respect and friends of the Welton family: (Harold Eberle, Bob Muncy, Steve & Joy Hogan, Eric Gregson & Doug Johnson). After many hours of conversation, investigation, and counsel, this advisory board recommends the following:
      1. Accept Jonathan Welton’s resignation from President of Welton Academy on
      September 10, 2018.
      2. Jonathan will have no contact with the Welton Academy staff team moving forward.
      3. The Welton Academy will be closed immediately and indefinitely.
      4. Each staff member who was ‘no longer needed’ or terminated following their refusal to accept Jonathan’s physical advances, or when confronting his selfish or bizarrely disrespectful actions or who quit because the work environment was beyond what they could endure, should be fully compensated for up to six months of their regular income.
      5. Welton Academy will compensate staff members and former staff members who are in need of professional counseling
      6. Welton Academy will refund all tuition that has been paid for the 2018-2019 academic year. Jonathan will refund the cost of the Summit ticket to anyone choosing to not attend.
      7. Jonathan will seek psychiatric help and follow the advice and recommendations of said professional
      As you can see, these findings are severe. Jon’s behavior is beyond hurtful and scary, he is now toxic to those who choose to be connected to him. A web of lies, created in a world that Jon controlled, is now revealing numerous victims of his extremely selfish, humiliating and habitual behavior.
      Upon first investigation, there are numerous confrontations from staff and members of his “5- fold council” (that was disbanded by Jon upon these confrontations) in an effort to address an unsafe work environment. Regular occurrences of physical advances, sexual innuendos, and highly inappropriate conversations became the culture Jonathan created around himself. The staff, almost entirely younger women, were subject to this confusion and dishonor while attempting to help something and someone they held in high esteem.
      It grieves me to write this letter knowing the ramifications. This entire advisory board is friends with Jonathan and Karen. The staff at the Welton Academy, even those chased away, are rooting for his successful turnaround. As of the writing of this letter, Jon is making slow if any progress. Repentance is not clear and thus the warning you hear in this letter. No repentance, no change. That reality creates an ongoing expectation of more of the same. Jon is not fit to be a leader, nor is he safe to have access to other people’s vulnerability.
      After much discussion about the Welton Academy Summit, coming up in a month, the advisory board has decided to keep the event on the calendar. The event will be shortened to the evening of Friday, October 26th through Saturday, October 27th. In honor of those who have given time to study “The Better Covenant” (which is still true), and for the numerous students who have already made plans to come to the event, we will provide a place of blessing, healing and possible clarity for you. Harold Eberle, Bob Muncy and myself will be among those leading the event this year. Jonathan will not be in attendance. He is not yet able to convince anyone around him that he’s broken over what he’s done to so many and has absolutely no credibility when he speaks.
      This letter is written primarily to give clear information to people who are waiting to hear what is going on inside the Welton Academy. The authority of this letter is spiritual. There is no legal authority to this letter. The above list of recommendations are simply that, what we recommend happen moving forward. Jonathan is the sole proprietor of the Welton Academy and can legally do whatever he chooses to do.
      There are numerous people victimized in this situation, none of them are named Jonathan. Up to now, he has spun all of his responsibility outward. Will we see Jon own this enormous mess, change into a new man and reconcile with the many people who love and believe in him? Time will tell. I pray that God has mercy and grants repentance to my good friend, Jonathan Welton.
      Danny Silk, MSW
      President of Loving On Purpose
      Senior Team, Bethel Church Redding, Ca
      Senior Advisor, Jesus Culture Sacramento

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  • Mike
    April 9, 2018 - 6:28 pm

    In regards to your comment:

    ” I am not sure how someone could bring the book of Acts was happening under the law of Moses.”

    You obviously did not read Jonathan’s book “Understanding The Whole Bible”.

    He clearly points out how the mainline Jewish culture (not the Church) during the book of Acts and up until 70AD was STILL operating under the Old Covenant. He then makes it clear how much of what is written in the NT is actually trying to explain why the New Covenant established at the CROSS is far better and completely fulfills , and thus does away with the Old !! (The destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD simply put an end to the Old Covenant practices.)

    You need to do more thinking before you spout off. Your “obligations” are to do your homework. Not slam your Brother in social media.

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    • Azusa Report
      April 9, 2018 - 9:02 pm

      The Transfer of Conevant was when Jesus took his last breath and the viel was ripped from top to bottom. The Church age started at Acts 2:4; not 10 years after Acts is stopped.

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    • J
      October 4, 2018 - 9:46 pm

      Hi Mike,
      If what you say is truly what Welton believes, then he’s not a true partial preterist. Preterism, both partial and full, believes that the Old Covenant was not abolished until 70 A.D.,which is a far cry from simply ending the Old Covenant practices. A foundational belief of preterism is that the ‘last days’ refer to the last days of the Old Covenant which allegedly ended in 70 A.D., but this is bizarre beyond belief. The preterist pillar of 2 covenants operating side-by-side for approximately 40 years from the cross to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is also bizarre and not at all prevalent in any of the writings of the early church fathers. The New Covenant age began with the cross, not the fall of Jerusalem.

      There was no way for the Old Covenant to exist concurrently with the New Covenant for 40 years until 70 A.D. with the fall of Jerusalem. The Mosaic law was finished with the death and resurrection of Jesus approximately 40 years previous. Forgiveness under the old covenant had long since finished by the time of 70 A.D., therefore it could not have existed in any way, shape, or form in spite of a dubious interpretation of Hebrews 8:13 (which fails to take into account that the latter half of this verse is not about the old covenant, which had already been made obsolete and was not still becoming obsolete by the time Hebrews was written. In Hebrews 10:5-10 we see that He took away the first covenant (Old) to establish the second (New). To say the end of the Old Covenant age was in 70 A.D. flies in the face of what Jesus did on the cross, when He cut a New Covenant once and for all by abolishing the old. The temple curtain was torn in two. The old was finished. If the last days concluded nearly 2000 years ago, this means the Holy Spirit would have ceased to be poured out. See Acts 2:14-28.

      Because the priesthood changed at the cross, so did the law (as it states in Hebrews 7:12). The Mosaic law was not still around in 70 A.D. in any capacity.

      For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.- Hebrews 7:18-19

      Then there’s the issue of rewriting history by changing Revelation’s date written from the mid-90’s A.D. (as has been the majority scholarly view for 2000 years) to 30 years earlier to try and make preterism fit into Revelation, since preterism doesn’t work if Revelation was written after the destruction of the 2nd temple and the fall of Jerusalem. That’s a whole nother topic in its entirety. Nowhere else do you see people attempt to modify a first century A.D. event by 30 years previous (or afterward, for that matter). History is too well-documented during that era, so there’s really no chance of this being persuasive by any stretch. Just some things to take into consideration for anyone who agrees with Welton’s eschatology.

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  • Olivia
    April 13, 2018 - 1:32 am

    I think what you may be trying to say is that you and Jonathan disagree on eschatological beliefs. He is not teaching heresy. It may or may not be incorrect, but it’s not blasphemy.

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    • Azusa Report
      April 13, 2018 - 11:21 am

      I believe what he is teaching is wrong on the strongest terms.

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      • Justin
        September 12, 2018 - 6:30 am

        I recently observed a fellow brother distancing himself from Johnathan due to an issue unexplained. I decided to look into what is being said and honestly what I’m seeing through this report is rather immature and a simple disagreement of carnal thinking. Which requires repentance and not a call out. Jesus said to love and do to others as we want done to us. This is not based on the other person’s actions and we need to stop playing for others and learn to live like Jesus with boundaries and understanding that God is God and we are to serve God. No where did Jesus say to debate others beliefs. The only thing this does is pulls us away from living out our personal convictions from the Holy Spirit. While I don’t agree with everything Johnathan teaches. It doesn’t change the fact that he brings it through a different perspective. I simply believe in the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that today religion has moved people from a personal relationship to a religious and dead debate that is full of empty and powerless teachings. We as the body of Christ need to set aside all things and get back to the simplicity of the gospel of Christ for it is to be good news and not just dead news. For I am unashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto Salvation. God doesn’t honor and help those who help themselves as religion has taught, God honors and helps those who humble turn to God for help. I would also say pride and knowledge had puffed you up based on the willingness to call someone else out. It may be time to do some inner seeking with Jesus Christ and true humbling. Just food for thought. Remember this isn’t about theology, eschatology, or anything else. This is purely about keeping a pure heart with God and coming to know God and Jesus Christ better. It is not about our knowledge, wisdom or experience and if we think it is we are very misled. I pray this recieve you with grace to find humility and willingness to also turn back to Jesus Christ. We follow Jesus not religion. Matthew ch 5,6,7 are the teachings of Jesus Christ, and check 10 was the first commission with the final commission taking place in Matthew 28:18-20. May God have mercy and Grace upon you and may you find it in your heart and realize the need for extending grace and mercy to John and others like him. Blessed are the merciful, they shall obtain mercy in Jesus name. Bless you.

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    • mark scott
      October 27, 2018 - 1:05 pm

      Actually, if you put all the false statements together from Jonathan Welton he has been teaching heresy. To say that a mixed covenant existed until AD70 is saying that the cross did not bring in the New Covenant. I heard Jonathan Welton at a conference suggest that eternal hell does not exist but people are burnt off, This is not biblical. Jonathan mixes very common teaching that is well known with a mixture of dangerous divisive rabbit holes, When you get mixture you get division, He had a character problem that I warned people about for over four years, Now he is being exposed, The group that was handling his so called restoration that he failed actually acted out of self preservation, He should have been removed for his perverse actions first from Welton Academy and a youtube video made not months after.

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      • Andy Pratt
        October 27, 2018 - 3:02 pm

        Mark you say above ” To say that a mixed covenant existed until AD70 is saying that the cross did not bring in the New Covenant.”
        Then explain what the Hebrew writer is saying them in Hebrews 8:13 , He made the “first obsolete”, saying it is “becoming obsolete and growing old and ready to vanish away.” That tells me when the writer wrote this it was before 70 AD likely very shortly before. So for the one covenant the fully come into effect the other must of been done away with. Obviously you disagreed with my comments. So what does the Hebrew writer mean when he speaks of Hebrews 8:13 regarding the beginning and ending of a covenant?

        Hebrews 8:10-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
        10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [a]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

        13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

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        • mark d scott
          October 30, 2018 - 3:47 am

          You can make a tired out explanation supporting these false teachings but the Word of God does not support mixed covenants, AD 70 , preterism and all the other rabbits holes, no matter how hard you try, The more you defend this unbiblical teachings the more you make yourself look like you are groveling. No more debate you simply need to read and submit to the simple and pure gospel. That’s it, you are wasting your time I am not open to this nonsense

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  • Carla
    April 26, 2018 - 3:37 am

    THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS! I’ve been wondering for the last few years since I learned about this false teacher…why SO FEW people were calling him out on his COMPLETE and utter heresy of the Word of God. Every point you made…I ALSO saw when I read some of the material a friend who totally follows him, gave to me. I knew as soon as I started reading…he was false. And sadly, my friend believed everything he says, hook line and sinker. When I tried showing her where he was misleading people…and the scriptures that proved this…she simply would not listen. He will be responsible for leading many astray if he doesn’t turn and repent. Again. THANK YOU for posting. I know can point people to what you’ve shared when they think Welton is speaking truth when he is clearly making stuff up.

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  • Cyrus
    April 27, 2018 - 1:23 am

    If you have received ministry from Bill Johnson, you should know very well how to operate in the culture of honor. Regarding Jonathan’s teaching, you might as well talk to him before you call him out to be a wolf.

    As ministers of life, we are not here to put down one another. To be mature is to be basic.


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    • Azusa Report
      April 27, 2018 - 5:20 pm

      Honoring is not turning the other way. Bill had to even address someone wrong doctrine before because it was so far out there.

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  • Philip Kumah Junior
    May 15, 2018 - 6:51 pm

    Well My Gift of Discernment brought me here. I was watching his video about discerning of spirits when i had an inner feeling “” the Devil u know transformeth himself as an angel of light” ,. I am not saying he (Jonathan) is a false teacher but f he doesnt believe in Rapture he is lost and i pray we all pray for his repentance.
    However i am still learning.

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  • Rory Michael Paget-Wilkes
    May 30, 2018 - 3:54 pm

    I would love to discuss with the writer of this article , this article, please could you get in touch thanks Rory

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  • Martin
    June 1, 2018 - 1:27 pm

    Many of Welton’s teachings are challenging and often offensive to the “Left Behind” eschatology culture of today. I find most people who seem to have a knee jerk response to him, calling him a false teacher, have never heard this as a potential view, have only heard the futurist view, haven’t studied the scripture on their own and certainly haven’t done the historical research. People put more faith in and fight over the word “rapture” and it doesn’t even exist in scripture! His teaching is NOT heretical, but an issue of timing. He’s not denying the supremacy or deity of Christ, salvation through Christ alone or core doctrine that would be heretical. In fact if you take the time to study, he increases the value and importance of the cross and what Christ did. By all means call out those who diminish or deny Christ and the cross, but I find it sad that brothers in Christ call this heresy and false teaching when it’s simply a disagreement on timing.

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  • Stephen
    June 11, 2018 - 9:21 pm

    In my opinion you represent what is worst about modern Christianity; we rip one another to shreds with accusations over what are really minor disagreements about what the Bible says. It is easy to criticize and find fault, positioning yourself as an expert; what is difficult is making a real difference in the world for the cause of Christ. On that score, Welton is far ahead of you.

    Everyone who has studied Eschatology knows it is a very difficult topic and that there are a great many differing viewpoints. No one has this figured out exactly. And it seems you are only vaguely familiar with what Welton actually teaches.

    Dig deeper. Think bigger. Find a bit more humility.

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    • Azusa Report
      June 11, 2018 - 10:17 pm

      Let’s think this out. The Blessed Hope or catching up of the saints is no “minor issue.” It is a fundamental value that determines much of the rest of how you see Jesus, the saints and the world at large. Eschatology is not little disagreement.

      As far as making what you call “real change,” Jonathan does nothing but run from church to church taking up offerings. I am a street evangelist. You know, in the trends with the broken.

      Humility? I have given him an open invitation to engage me on the issue and instead did a video on Facebook blasting me. Hmmm….

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  • Neal McArthur
    June 15, 2018 - 12:55 am

    When God speaks of “A new covenant ,” He makes the first one obsolete. And whatever is becoming obsolete (out of use, annulled) and growing old is ready to disappear.
    HEBREWS 8:13 AMP
    Old covenant still remained and was fading away even after the vei when Hebrews was written I ascot 58AD. Yes, for those in Christ were no longer under the mosaic law. (MATT 24:26) Until the end of the age, within a generation of the cross, the temple was the final piece of the old covenant, the sacrifice still too place until 70AD. The mosaic law will not leave, For verily I say unto you, Till. heaven and earth pass( the temple-the place where heaven and earth meet), one jot or one. tittle shall in no wise pass from. the law, till all be fulfilled.
    With the temple gone the mosaic law is gone and now skill remains is a better covenant.

    There is still a final return of Christ in the future, I believe Dr Weldon even says this.Just no future world wide tribulation.

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    • Azusa Report
      June 15, 2018 - 11:26 am

      You really think Hebrews 8:13 points to that? Seriously.

      Without some tribulation, there will be no revival.

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    • J
      October 4, 2018 - 9:58 pm

      Hi Neil,
      There are some enormous holes in this belief that the Old Covenant was still around until 70 A.D., not the least of which is the dating of the book of Revelation itself (more on that in a minute).

      There is no way for the Old Covenant to exist concurrently with the New Covenant for 40 years until 70 A.D. with the fall of Jerusalem. The Mosaic law was finished with the death and resurrection of Jesus approximately 40 years previous. Forgiveness under the old covenant had long since finished by the time of 70 A.D., therefore it could not have existed in any way, shape, or form in spite of a dubious interpretation of Hebrews 8:13 (which fails to take into account that the latter half of this verse is not about the old covenant, which had already been made obsolete and was not still becoming obsolete by the time Hebrews was written. The New Covenant was fully established with the death and resurrection of Christ. You would have had a hard time explaining to Paul (and the rest of the early church, for that matter) during the time he lived that he had not yet entered into the New Covenant, and was still under the old one when he was martyred during Nero’s reign). So what about the covenants existing side-by-side for about 40 years?

      In Hebrews 10:5-10 we see that He took away the first covenant (Old) to establish the second (New). To say the end of the Old Covenant age was in 70 A.D. flies in the face of what Jesus did on the cross, when He cut a New Covenant once and for all by abolishing the old. The temple curtain was torn in two. The old was finished.

      Many Old Covenant saints came out of their graves for a short time after Jesus resurrected and appeared to a lot of people (Matthew 27:51-53). One could reasonably infer that they testified about who Christ is while they walked the earth again for a short time. Christ is the end of the Mosaic law for all who believe in Him. There was nothing left to still be in effect after the cross. The laws of purification were superseded by the Jesus’ blood. There is no longer a requirement to stone those who don’t celebrate the Friday night to Saturday night Sabbath. Those who celebrate the Jewish feasts and holidays are on equal footing with those who don’t (Romans 14).

      What exactly was left to still be in effect for about 40 years from the cross until 70 A.D. with the fall of Jerusalem? Sacrifices? Jesus was the last sacrifice, and there was nothing forgiven under the animal sacrifices that took place after the cross. To say otherwise is blasphemous to what He accomplished for us.
      What was more effective in ending the Old Covenant– the cross or the destruction of the 2nd temple? How could the Mosaic law still be around after all that Jesus did for us on the cross?

      “Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.” Hebrews 7:11-13. There was a changing of the law (literally meaning transfer). The power to forgive was transferred from the Old Covenant to the New, which took place at the cross. And if there’s no more forgiveness under the Old Covenant, then there’s no more Old Covenant.

      For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:18-19.

      The animal sacrifices after the cross until 70 A.D. were not authorized to forgive sin and were an insult to the cross. Remember Nadab and Abihu in Leviticus 10 when they brought unauthorized sacrifices? They died horribly, by fire. No such thing took place after the cross. Why is that? It’s because the Mosaic law was finished, and the New Covenant of grace was in effect and showing mercy to give them time to repent in Jerusalem before it fell. Had the Old Covenant somehow still been in effect, there would have been mass casualties at the temple since Jesus was the only way to forgiveness going forward.

      To claim a pre-70 A.D. dating for Revelation flies in the face of the general scholarly consensus that it was written after 70 A.D., well into the 80’s or 90’s A.D. towards the end of John’s life. There are a number of reasons why it’s illogical to give a pre-70 A.D. dating for this book.

      Preterism in any form also doesn’t work if Revelation was written after the fall of Jerusalem. John was exiled to Patmos under Emperor Domitian who reigned from 81 to 96 A.D., and to say John was exiled under the psychotic Emperor Nero is highly improbable because Nero had no interest in exiling Christians and every interest in setting them on fire.

      If Revelation was written in the 60’s A.D., then this was roughly around the same time Paul’s letter to the Ephesians was written. If this is the case, then Paul and John contradicted each other regarding the state of the church at Ephesus: “Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers” Ephesians 1:15-16 and ” And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience”– Ephesians 2:1-2

      “Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent” Revelation 2:4-5. So which was it? Was the early church in Ephesus loving Jesus, or leaving their first love? It could not have been both.

      1 John was written in the 90’s A.D., which places it at odds with the Revelation pre-70 A.D. alleged timestamp. When he says ‘it is the last hour’, this could not have been referring to a pre-70 A.D. time frame. And if the end of the age had already taken place then this makes no sense. And there is no evidence for 1, 2, and 3 John being written before the fall of Jerusalem.

      There is also no evidence of an established church in Smyrna in the early-to-mid 60’s A.D. when some proponents of preterism say Revelation was written (64-65 A.D. is a popular date that gets thrown around for Revelation’s writing). Polycarp (69 A.D.-155 A.D.) was a major leader in the church at Smyrna, as well as a disciple of John, and in his letter to the Philippians he writes in chapter 11 that while Paul boasted about them in his epistle to them, Smyrna had not yet known Christ. Philippians was written around 62-63 A.D., so this throws a wrench into a mid-60’s A.D. date for the book of Revelation. This is not the strongest evidence, but is worth including in the preponderance of the evidence.

      The Christian chronicler Hegesippus wrote around 150 A.D. (about 30 years before Irenaeus, which is important to note) that John was exiled to Patmos under the reign of Domitian (who reigned between 81 and 96 A.D.), and this was common knowledge among the early and later church. Also for this and more see ‘A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs’ put together by David Bercot, which compiles a collection of ante-Nicene church fathers and what they believed on over 700 topics. Missing from early church history is the belief that Jesus returned in 70 A.D. invisibly or any significance to the pre-70 A.D. dating of Revelation.

      Also, a fallacious argument that is often used by the preterist position is that if John wrote Revelation in the mid-90’s A.D. then he most certainly would have mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem some two and a half decades prior. But why would he? Revelation is a prophetic book about the future, not a history book. In the very first verse of chapter one it says Revelation is to show God’s servants what WILL take place, not what has already taken place. And the Greek word from which ‘shortly’ is translated means quickly, speedily. In other words, when it happens it won’t take a long time to finish. But how long is long? Are we looking at this from man’s perspective or God’s? Preterism takes man’s perspective, by arguing that the Greek word τάχος, tachos, can only mean a short time after John received the vision on Patmos. But what does Scripture say? A day with the Lord is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. God is not bound by man’s expectations. See 2 Peter 3 and Psalm 90. Jesus will return again, but unfortunately thanks to preterism there are a number of people who will not be looking for Him.

      Another nail in the coffin of preterism is this: Nero’s persecution of Christians was not empire-wide but situated in Rome. So when Jesus talks about persecution and trials in Revelation 2 and 3 for example, it makes no sense since these churches were not in Rome. Just some things to think about. God bless

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  • Michael
    August 9, 2018 - 3:50 pm

    I watched some of his videos on youtube. He said the things he knew came from the teaching of angels. He said angels came to teach him in person day by day. I don’t even know if it’s true. It’s out of my understanding.

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  • MIchael
    August 17, 2018 - 1:47 pm

    This is the link of Jonathan Welton’s video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ5JCY-f6Gs It would be great if you watch this and tell us back what you think about what he says. Thank You, Sir.

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    August 29, 2018 - 7:13 am

    Can I ask a simple question? Who are you because all I can see is Azusa Report. What is your name and could you please put a picture up of yourself because you associate yourself with the likes of Bill Johnson and John Arnott but I am not sure they would do the same with you. So could you please be open about who you are. Thanks from Wales the land of revival….

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    • Azusa Report
      August 29, 2018 - 12:21 pm

      My name is on the website and Yes, both those men love revivalists.

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        September 2, 2018 - 4:27 pm

        I cannot seem to find your name so do you mind telling me it. What do you mean by both men love revivalists?

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  • Eric
    September 19, 2018 - 7:08 am

    You should be ashamed to of this post. “Cult”? “False Teacher”? All accusations because of a different eschatology? This article is in behavior or the enemy – the accuser of the brethren. Debate and disagree with eschatology like theologians have for centuries. You write with pride and arrogance and presume to know all mysteries – while citing one proof text. If you had half a shred of Christian decency you would repent of this public defacing of a brother and charging him with anti-Christ teachings and leading a cult. Whatever issue you have against his viewing of eschatology (like many before) you have bore false witness against him with these labels and declarations. Remove the log from your own eye.

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  • Jeremy
    September 20, 2018 - 2:28 am

    Jonathan Welton just got busted for being a sexual pervert https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=dkRAyUtHDJA

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  • Saundra
    September 20, 2018 - 11:50 pm

    For one thing, The bible says to restore in love, IF ONE IS REPENTANT,Johnathan doesnt think his teachings are wrong, so, he isnt repentant. The Bible is clear on what we are to do to false teachers, I’m surprised you that defend him, do not know this, Paul was explicit on how to deal with them, Jonathan Went in is leading people to Hell, of course he doesn’t believe in Hell, But yes, he must be called out for it..secondly, Bill Johnson is teaching some wacky stuff too, along with all the NAR and all Prophetic movements, believe you me, I was in it for years, they mock people who believe in the rapture, and let’s not forget the Courts of heaven cult, yeah, travel to heaven, talk to the dead,totally unscriptual, But they take scripture out of context, so they make it read however they want. So yes, By all means, call them all out, before they and their false teachings take everyone to Hell, because they will be held accountable, they also believe you can live whatever way,and it’s just okay with God, and let’s not forget that Preterists are anti Semetic either… How does anyone think it’s love to Not correct someone in error? to me, thats the true act of love..

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    • J
      October 4, 2018 - 10:03 pm

      Hi Saundra,
      I’m certainly no proponent of Jonathan Welton, as I disagree with him on many issues. But I never heard him say that there is no hell. Can you provide a link for him making this statement?

      I’m not accusing you of making it up. I just like to see all sides presented. I’ve read a number of his articles and watched some of his videos for views I don’t agree on because it sharpens what I believe and why. Preterism is a horrible doctrine that is lulling people in the church to sleep so that they will be completely unprepared for the end times.

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  • Jeremy
    September 23, 2018 - 5:02 pm

    opps! This is the right link to Welton being a sick pervert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akYXiEMt_mA

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  • Andy Pratt
    October 27, 2018 - 12:42 am

    Thank You Mike & Neal for your comments above and others who are empathetic to Jonathan Plight. I have been reading and studying for years on tge subject of Eschatogy reading from Gary DeMar, to Robert Gentry, Hal Lindsay, to Tim LaHay to Greg Bahnson, Gary North and Thomas Ice and Jonathan’s book called Raptureless is one of the most profound books on Mathew 24 & Daniel 9 with appendixes on Israel etc. I deem and believe antiquity will deem it a classic.
    As far as when one covenant ended and began I believe there is the truth that it changed at the cross however the full realization and the complete changeover did not occur until 70 AD with the destruction of the Mosaic system.

    Paul (?) or the Hebrew writer is very clear in the last verse of this quote:
    “For here is the covenant I will one day establish with the people of Israel: I will embed my laws within their thoughts and fasten them onto their hearts. I will be their loyal God and they will be my loyal people. And the result of this will be that everyone will know me as Lord! There will be no need at all to teach their fellow-citizens or brothers by saying, ‘You should know the Lord Jehovah,’ since everyone will know me inwardly, from the most unlikely to the most distinguished. For I will demonstrate my mercy to them and will forgive their evil deeds, and never remember again their sins.” This proves that by establishing this new covenant the first is now obsolete, ready to expire, and about to disappear.”
    ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:10-13‬ ‭TPT‬‬
    http://bible.com/1849/heb.8.10-13. TPT

    Yes Jesus established a New Covenant with the old one not fully expired until 70 Ad and the New Covenant fully appearing until until 70 AD. It was as if the veil was fully removed from something which was established at the cross.

    I realize this verse following may be taken out of context nevertheless the principle remains.

    “For now we see but a faint reflection of riddles and mysteries as though reflected in a mirror, but one day we will see face-to-face. My understanding is incomplete now, but one day I will understand everything, just as everything about me has been fully understood.”
    ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:12‬ ‭TPT‬‬

    As far as the Azusa Reports writer who admits is holds to the Dispensational Pre-Millenial view is very sad indeed. The real question is how long are we to continue to tolerate Dispensational thought versus Covenantal Theology. As the two authors Ian Rossol & Tony Wastall have written “Win the World or Escape the Earth? The End Time Controversy” essentially answers this question. I think the Asusa Report before taking a run at Jonathan Welton I think you should be rechooled in proper Biblical Hermenuetics. A good place to start is Gary DeMar’s book “ A Beginners Guide to Interpretating Bible Prophecy.

    I think we have all gotten a belly full of the so called Anti-Christ, Great Tribulation, and future of doom and gloom. Jesus is on the throne lets stop putting the devil there and giving Him authority he does not have or power. We are following the God of the Universe not a wimpy person nailed to a cross but one who is seated on the throne with those who know Him seated beside Him. We have a mandate to not only reach the lost but to disciple nations. We have a victorious eschatology and brillant future lets put aside doctrine of demons and get on with it.

    PS-As for Jonathan Welton if what above is true I pray for full recovery. Interestingly I read one of the greatest Fathers Christian history had moral issues before and after his salvation. His name was Augustine. Lets remember Galatians 6:1-5

    “Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For each one shall bear his own load.”
    ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:1-5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

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    • Azusa Report
      October 27, 2018 - 10:10 am

      I hold a Pentecostal Eschatology view. Revival based end times. Great Harvest then we will be catched up with the Lord. The reason this is important is there a second revival that is among the Jewish people.

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  • Andy Pratt
    October 27, 2018 - 2:14 pm

    Azusa Report
    Thanks for your response. I think if you take a look at: Ian Rossol & Tony Wastall book “Win the World or Escape the Earth? The End Time Controversy” and Gary Demar’s book “Wars and Rumors of Wars” this may put you on the right track. The problem is Dispensationalists take the 70th week of Daniel ( Daniel 9: 24-27) and take it out of the sequence it was intended which was 27 AD ending in approximately 34 AD being the 483 rd year of the prophecy to year 490. God can tell time. This week applied to the time of Christ speaking of:
    1) finish transgression – work of the cross and His blood
    2) put an end of sin & atone for wickedness – the atonement – the last sacrifice
    3) bring in everlasting righteousness
    4) seal up the vision – fulfillment
    5) anoint the Most Holy Place – Went to see the Father with His blood giving us access as sons and daughters to His throne and be seated with Him in heavenly places

    The balance speaks of the tribulation to follow which was the Roman Army bringing destruction to Jerusalem in 70 AD. How much clearer could this be versus 69 weeks and Dispensationalists tranporting the 70 th week into the future and adding x number of years. Like close to 1991 at this point in time. Sorry but that math just just not make sense. From strictly a mathematical perspective the Great Tribulation is past, fufilled not future.

    Circumstances should not dictate our interpretation of the bible rather it should be the bible that that explains the circumstances. Sadly the Dispensational view has always changed what the writer of the bible intended to fit their doctrine rather than allow the scripture to formulate correct doctrine.

    If you look at the 70 weeks or 490 years and allow them to be kept in those time constraints as the writer being the Holy Spirit intended you should arrive at the right place in your interpretation of what the writer intended that is the beginning of Christ’s ministry.

    Have a great day.

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  • Andy Pratt
    November 9, 2018 - 5:57 am

    To Pastor D,
    Not sure if you are trying to throw mud at Jonathan Welton based on the fact you are considered to be a fivefold minister and we are to believe what you have said simply based on your office as a Pastor, as your comments are entirely unsubstantiated.

    I take from your comments regarding angels you perhaps do not believe in angels appearing in the bible, or they are from a day gone by or because Joesph Smith encountered an angel leading to Mormonism that negates the work of angels in his Church today. Really it is hard to know just where your coming from but many people are tired of dead religion today and living in a materialistic world where they interpret the letter of the word endeavouring to put the Holy Spirit in a box and God can only move as he did exactly before according to the encouters to the letter shown in the Bible.

    Dead religion ,“having a form of Godliness denying the power thereof.” II Timothy 3:5.
    Hopefully this is not you.

    To sum up these people believe in the Father, Son and Holy Bible and leave the Holy Spirit out of the picture who brings life and further encounters with each one of with Jesus, the Father and His Kingdom which includes angels. The book of Acts is not ended as God is making all of living epistles. They are numerous examples of visitation of angels in both the old and New Testament. Who dictated the book of Revelation to John, Jesus, heavenly visions and angelic visitations all occurred.

    Have you not read Shawn Bolz’s book “Keys to Heaven’s Economy: An Angelic Visitation from the Minister of Finance.
    Shawn is one of the most respected prophets today. Or do you believe they are past also. Shawn apparently had two visitations from an angel which inspired the writing of that book.

    Jonathan Welton a heretic, get serious. He is one of the most dynamic writers today.
    His book is a classic. The partial preterist view which he holds to, is what the early church believed along with the church largely up to the 1800’s. Wesley, Edwards, Spurgeon, and Calvin. What about all those having endorsed his book are they all heretics too.

    You say “false doctrine at every level”
    Yet you provide Nothing to support your comment. Arrogance??? I hope not.

    Hopefully your not coming from a Dispensational Premillenial position. This is why in North America there the church is in such a state of unbelief having a meager effect on the world today. Oh yes lets hide behind Romans 1 to justify not being involved in a supernatural gospel simply because the “world is going to hell in a hand basket.”

    Most churches operating in other parts of the experiencing the supernatural don’t buy into that dispensational gloom and doom gospel.

    Great witness.

    Or the great Left Behind quote:

    “In case of rapture, this car will be without a driver!”

    Boy that sure instils some hope for those who are lost by spreading the gospel of fear to this dying world. Many dispensationalists have distanced themselves from Tim LaHaye’s interpretation in that it is the righeous who remain and the unrighteous removed consistent with the rest of the bible.
    Mt. 24:40-41
    Of course this passage has reference to Christ coming in judgement in 70 AD as he promised.

    Heresy ???. Unfortunately Jonathan may be experiencing some pruning and need of healing in Christ but restoration is in God’s playbook for him and ultimately Jonathan’s identity is in Christ as are His writings. I am not saying I may agree with all he has written for I have not read all of however Raptureless is one of the best organized articulated preterist views of Mt. 24, Daniel 9 and the discussion of the so called rapture, Great Tribulation etc.

    Moral Default does not equal heresy otherwise consider removing King David’s Psalms or the works of the Apostle Paul from the bible. Also don’t forget the great father of the Faith Augustine.

    God gave us a mandate to bring heaven to earth and make disciples the nations not look skyward while the rest of the world goes to hell rather working with the Holy Spirit to transform the nations for Jesus until the Glory of God covers the earth as the waters cover the sea.

    PS- Ever heard of David Chilton, Gary DeMar, Kenneth Gentry, Gary North.
    Gary Demar’s book is quite similiar to Jonathan’s account of Wars and Rumours of Wars of Matthew 24. Hmmm is Gary a heretic too.

    Perhaps you need to read the book: Win the World or Escape the Earth by Ian Rossol & Tony Wastall – The end time controversy. These authors also give a great account of Matt. 24.
    Or should we also call them heretics too.
    I challenge you to do a little more homework, get out and breath the fresh air of whst God is doing in the earth today and his grest victorious plans for the future. Reading Pastor Johnson’s classic, Heaven Invades Earth might recalibrate your settings. Hopefully so.

    If you want to live up to your billing as a Pastor please provide us more than your feeble unsubstantiated accusations.

    Have a great day.

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  • Peter Ignatius
    November 19, 2018 - 7:39 am

    The entire discussion is peculiar to American Christianity. The disservice to the gospel from the Left Behind Dispensational Premillennial thinking erodes the beauty of God’s love for the world. To me the most serious heresy is the insult to the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross as having ushered in God’s Kingdom on earth (as we pray in the Lord’s Prayer). And a bad attitude which looks like rejoicing against unbelievers, i.e. “you guys are going to get it.” Looks a bit opposite to the Spirit of Jesus. The Disp.PreMill, brethren also seem to want a restoration of the Old Covenant after their “Rapture and Tribulation” period – rebuilding Jerusalem, physical throne on Mount Zion, sacrificial system, etc. Then what was nailed to the cross according to Colossians?

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  • Beth Hill
    January 5, 2019 - 1:51 pm

    I agree with you completely & I appreciate you standing up (despite persecution) and speaking the truth. . This man mixes truth with his own “gospel.” Several scriptures the Lord brought to my attention years ago (actually they were concerning “Joseph Prince” and the Hyper-Grace hearsay, that he promotes as well) were that when Yahusha said in Matthew, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL them” the word “fulfill” in Greek is “telos” which is where our word “telephone & telescope” comes from. It actually means to: connect, make complete, establish & make clear & visible—-never does it mean “done away with.” Using the analogy of some that it means “don’t sway with”—-can you imagine a person saying they’re “fulfilling” their marriage vows & their spouse is fine with & undestsndsthsr this means “done away” with them?!? No!!! When Yahusha HaMassiach (Jesus) said he fulfilled the law & the prophets, He meant through ME (Yahusha) it’s now possible to live right and obey the commandments!! He doesn’t say living right and being obedient are now “done away” with!! Yahusha (Jesus) said & other NT scriptures (repeatedly) concur thar proof that we love Him is “if we OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS.”

    Also, concerning those who are attacking you for exposing these types of people—Paul in the NT said to have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness, rather EXPOSE them. This is done, not to shame the person but to protect the BODY OF CHRIST. Paul named names, such as “Demas” in his letters and “Alexander the coppersmith” that did Him much harm to protect fellow Believers & it is actually wrong if we know something that could potentially cause fellow Believers harm & we do nothing to warn them. In Titus 3:10, we are told to go to those who are promoting falsehoods & (using scriptures) try to reprove them once, twice and then if they still do not submit to the scriptures—to “have nothing to do with them.” This is love because even Yahusha did not run after the Pharisee, but He called them “children of the devil” and walked the other way. So many don’t rightly divide the Word of truth by suggesting that we are not “waking in love” when we disagree or expose a false teacher. But according to scripture—there are 3 groups of people: Belivers, the “Lost” and the Pharisee. The first 2 groups, Yahusha clearly taught repentance, love, grace & forgiveness to. The last group, the “accusers of the brethren” God Himself doesn’t try to convert (through love, longsuffering, patience etc) because He knew…these would only waste His time & energy from moving forward to help those who could and wanted…to learn and grow and develop in their walk with Yahuah, our Abba. People need to know how to recognize the difference in these people and rightly divide the Word of Truth, regarding how to deal with each of the three groups. As long we are daily repenting and submitting ourselves to Yahuah our Abba through Yahusha HaMassiach…to the truth of the Word….we are to lovingly share the truth with others. That means teaching, encouraging & disciplining Believers, convering the “lost” (then discipling them), to finally to warn both these groups that wolves in sheep’s clothing that “appear as angels of light” DO exist & exactly HOW TO RECOGNIZE them as such using the Word. Then expose them if necessary to protect His lambs.

    May Yahuah bless you & keep you & give you Shalayaim.

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  • Roy
    March 28, 2019 - 8:25 pm

    What I have found over the years is that when we go headhunting to defame anyone, it’s pretty evident our eyes are off of Jesus and following Him. Unsalty salt! It begins like this: someone offends us, our hearts grow cold, we blame someone else and the mudslinging begins. Love?? We believe that “if that other guy would get his views right, my world would be made right” or “I have to defend Jesus, because obviously He really isn’t big enough for this – He needs me!” We become of no value to the mandate given to us by Jesus when we start on this path, which ends miserably – we are alone in a church of one, disconnected from the Holy Spirit Who has gone mysteriously silent within, and we put our hopes in a future move of God so we will feel again. When we become unified by what we disagree with, rest assured, we can expect our heads to be next on the chopping block of public criticism. This is not love.

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    • Simon
      April 16, 2019 - 12:21 am

      Hello Roi !
      Wake up my friend ! along with you all those who think here that The Gospel of Christ is about “good moral values” or other “soft thinkings not to hurt our neigbour” “and if one does not keep to that there is no love. Hey men it isn’t that way! Looks and sounds like spirituality but that is very religious!!! Remember SOMEBODY DIED FOR THIS CAUSE ! Not just ANYBODY, but GOD !!!! JESUS said he corrects those he loves Rev 2:19. Be carefull your gospel becomes TOO PERMISSIVE like the US society.

      Let me not enter the whole issues of doctrine that are at stake here. But I’ll rather say, there is NO SMALL truth as far as God and the Gospel are concerned. If you remove only one letter while spelling the name of YAHUSHA (JESUS), be it in Hebrew, greek or any language, the meaning is no more THE LORD THAT SAVES, or I AM THAT SAVES, or whatever ! Notice that DAVID PICKED 5 STONES FROM THE BROOK? BUT ONLY USED ONE TO KILL GOLIATH. So one truth you belittle or neglect can be the one to take somebody to heaven or to hell. Let’s check these verses :
      Plil 1:7 reads “Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in THE DEFENCE AND CONFIRMATION OF THE GOSPEL, ye all are partakers of my grace” Thus we see that the Gospel or the truth CAN be defended.

      So, It is quite normal (and even a duty) for a man of God to oppose PUBLICLY another person teaching even ONLY ONE wrong doctrine to the CHURCH of JESUS He bought at A GREAT PRICE like Apostle Peter says. In the book of Galatians, Apostle Paul went to the extend of calling some people FALSE BRETHREN :
      Gal 2: 4-5 “And that BECAUSE OF FALSE BRETHREN unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: TO WHOM WE GAVE PLACE BY SUBJECTION, NO, NOT FOR AN HOUR; THAT THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL MIGHT CONTINUE WITH YOU.” This shows that the Gospel or the truth MUST be defended
      Gal 2: 11-13 “But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation”

      Here Apostle Paul did not consider all the so called “good manners” “love” or whatever you proclaim but vigorously oppose “The great” Apostle Peter for the TRUTH to prevail.
      Remember in the old covenant, what happened : Numb 25:1-13
      “… And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

      And God said He loved the spirit of Phinehas

      “And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy. Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace: And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

      The matter here is gospel doctrines… some merely call a certain part of it eschatology, but notice that this is seriously linked to 2 doctrines we cannot do away with as mentionned in Heb 6:2 . That is the Doctrines “of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment”. You can’t talk of these without mentioning the rapture, the resurrections, hell, heaven, the great tribulation, the beast, antichrist, the rewards (good or bad), to name but a few.

      In fact, even Jesus was heated of Jews like Pharisees and Co. simply because he opposed them and exposed their falsehood. Meanwhile they were great religious leaders.
      But today, we are conforming to this world. And we call it Gospel: Speaking bible truth is said to be “judging Homosexuals”

      You are blessed ! My prayers for you all !
      Your brother in Christ.

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  • Simon
    April 16, 2019 - 1:00 am

    Let me add that I am actually reading Jonathan Welton book THE SCHOOL OF THE SEERS. uptill now, I like what he is saying there. I believe in him. But we must always be watchfull. Anyone of us can go astray. ADAM did. Before him, Lucifer did. Only JESUS never.
    So I simply mean we must test all spirit.
    Even Peter sounded right just few minutes before Jesus will tell him “… Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.” Matth 16: 23

    Paul warned us Gal 1: 6-10
    ” I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
    For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

    GAL 6: 1-5
    Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden.

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