Tagged in: reinhard bonnke

Lessons I learned from Mike Francen

Some sixteen years ago, I was living in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma working for a large church and doing street evangelism every night in Tulsa. I was reaching dozens of people for Christ right where they was. In a city that many have been hurt by the church, that is quite the remarkable statement. Continue reading…

Street Evangelism: response to Alan Hirsch

I am friends with Alan Hirsch, a director at the Missional Leadership Network on Facebook and we will just say he is very committed to the missional movement. I am a huge fan of the concept personally. I have been ever since hearing Ed Stetzer talk about it at the Assemblies of God Theological Seminary. However, you can be a fan of something and not drink the kool-aid, so to speak. Continue reading…

Healing is not a gift! : A response to Darren Wilson

Looking at my Kindle and I reading several books, one of them is Darren Wilson’s Filming God. I like Darren as a guy and I love to hear his journey out of unbelief into being “the defender of the miraculous.” He is alot like Randy Clark in alot of ways (minus the 1990’s haircut that Randy keeps)

When I am reading his book, I have remind myself that he is not a classic Pentecostal or someone raised in the Charismatic renewal. He was a good ole Baptist boy that questioned everything just a decade ago. His “mainframe” is your normal one that people who stand strong on healing have. The wiring is a different color.

I really am enjoying the book and most of his thoughts I agree…. but there is one that I have to passionately disagree with. I am sure Darren means well and I am sure this is his baptist roots kicking in. If someone even believe God could heal someone is radical in the Baptist movement. If you believe he would heal, you done lost your mind and went Dr. Ron Philips on everyone.

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Divine Healing is not a gift!

This is where I fall off the train with Darren, theologically. I understand where he is coming from. I do. I just do not see it biblically as he does. I do not see healing as a gift. More on that in a minute.

In my experience, the main hurdle many people must overcome before they will fully put their trust in a God who loves them enough that He might possibly heal them through miraculous means is to come to an understanding that He might not heal them. (Darren Wilson, Filming God) 

If you believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ (as I do), you can’t believe that God “might not” heal someone. Healing was paid for with the same blood as salvation. If God won’t heal you, He also did not save you. No one with any theological background (beside hard core calvinists) would not agree with that statement. Healing is part of salvation though.

At the heart of this discussion is what we call sozo. It is life to the soul and spirit but also to the mind (delivernce) and to the body (healing). It is complete transformation of the person. That is what salvation is.

Many will hold, “Divine healing is an integral part of the gospel. Deliverance from sickness is provided for in the atonement, and is the privilege of all believers.”

I agree with that with one little issue: privilege is too weak of a position. It is not just our privilege but is our birthright to be healed.

The fact of the matter is God loves to heal and in order to heal through us, he has to get healing to us. Miracles are just for you, they are to empower you so that miracles can flow through you.

The preaching of salvation with signs, wonders, and miracles was God’s design in the New Testament.

Three-wheeler

Healing is for you!

“Christ’s death on the cross not only provides for forgiveness of sin, but also healing for sickness. The One who gave you the gift of eternal life…is the same One who can heal your body.” Rev. Doug Clay

While Doug could not be considered a Benny Hinn type of any measurement, his thoughts are very powerful. This is coming from a man much more related to pastoral ministry than having an evangelistic signs and wonders ministry. In my view, pastors are normally the weakest on healing. (That’s another discussion)

When I hear a pastor made a blunt statement about healing like this, my ear pop open. Realizing it is not the common position for them; I know that the Holy Spirit must be speaking to them.

While I think saying that God can heal you is a copout, I do understand the reason for someone in a position of Clay would give the chicken exit. I am sure if I said the same about salvation; everyone would be completely up in arms. I have no idea what they do with the atonement.

The movement that Doug is part of is one that I was part of since the day I was born and I was saved in the Brownsville Revival. I love them but the Assemblies of God have become wimps when it comes to healing. Alot of Assemblies do not even preach it anymore. They prefer to talk about having your best life now and living with purpose.

TL_Osborn

Why Healing matters in revival?

We are a ministry committed to revival so why should we care about healing? It is not just an add-on on the evangelist’s menu of things to preach. It is the center of the message of the Kingdom of God. Healing is critical to winning the lost. As Mike Francen likes to put it, “A miracles settles the issue.” One miracle and the town repents and turns to God.

The reason that guys like Benny Hinn, Reinhard Bonnke and Richard Roberts put so much emphasis on healing is that is one thing that will convince the masses more than a thousand sermons. Without the supernatural, Christianity is just a story of a guy that made some pretty outlandish claims. Miracles are what makes them legit.

I have seem it a dozen times. A chief in the village comes to a crusade, he is healed by the power of God, when the people see he is healed, they all come to the crusade and get saved. One miracle will truly save a village.

 Some of you have become arrogant, thinking I will not visit you again. But I will come—and soon—if the Lord lets me, and then I’ll find out whether these arrogant people just give pretentious speeches or whether they really have God’s power.  For the Kingdom of God is not just a lot of talk; it is living by God’s power. (Apostle Paul)  

Here is the video of Doug Clay about healing

Here is the promo for Holy Ghost Reborn by Darren Wilson

G12 churches & David Yonggi Cho

David Yonggi Cho is the pastor of Yoido Full Gospel Church, the world’s largest church. He is a pastor of pastors. Yoido Full Gospel Church is more like a domination that has camp meeting regularly than an actual local church. Cho is only the Apostolic leader over it all.

I have been to this church in Souel and it is quite amazing. He has built an amazing work for the Lord that started with an old stolen Army tent left after the Korean War. I like what I found in Korea and I liked the freedom that Cho operated in from a ministry point of view.

I listen to him to speak once at Oral Roberts University and he told about all the times he tried to do great things for God only to fail. It was faith building for young revivalists to know ministry really is about trail and error more than the mega-church make it sound like.

Is G12 churches supported by David Yonggi Cho?

The simple answer is no. A core value of Yoido Church is cell ministry but even Cho has reservations about these g12 churches. Cho used it as a tool to grow the church, not to replace the great commission. G12 churches think that their cells are the great commissions. Being a cell group is salvation. This is completely rejected by David Yonggi Cho.

Yoido used cell ministry is one of many tools to grow the church and preach the gospel to South Korea. It never was the focus on the ministry nor did it replace the gospel. In fact, David Yonggi Cho blessed and helped Benny Hinn as well as Reinhard Bonnke when they came to gospel crusades in Seoul. He did not believe that cell ministry would do the great commission, only be one of many expressions.

It is important to understand that Cho believes in using all tools at hand to develop soul winning ministry. He will use crusades, church services, outreaches to governmental leaders, and cell groups. All he cares is people come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ; not how they came to know Christ.

It is the message that is divine, not the method. The problem with G12 churches and why David Yonggi Cho would never support them is they make the method more important that the message. This is not something that Cho would sign off on. In fact, he has rejected it completely.

Cho also understands that cell ministry is completely a cultural thing. It is a biblical model because it does not work everywhere but it can work within some cultural. He would never try and preach the model into the scriptures. It is not unbiblical but it is extra-biblical.

It is important to note that Cho did say publicly that cell ministry, while it works in Korean culture would not work well in American culture. Americans would be won by media presentations of the gospel, not cell groups.

G12 Churches misrepresent David Yonggi Cho

Cesar Castellanos is the main leader in the G12 movement and he repeatly misrepresented Cho in his books and his videos. Cesar did go to Korea and saw what was happening at Yoido Church. However, there was no impartation from Cho. To my knowledge, I do not think they met while he was in Korea. I am not sure if they have met since or not. That is possible.

If they followed the example of Yoido Church, they would give everything away. The church charges for nothing. Counseling is free. Books are free. Food is free. It is based on the words of Jesus, “freely you have received, freely give.”

G12 Churches do not follow this model in any way, shape, or form. There is a price for everything. Counseling with Castellanos is worth about $150 American dollars. That is not bad. If you counsel for two hours a day, you only make around $78,000 a year. Only.

All the conferences at G12 churches are far from free as well. Some of them can get over $100. Charging for conferences is something that need to seriously stop. If you are charging people to hear the gospel; you are a pastor, you are a scam artist. It is just that simple.

For G12 churches and Cesar Castellanos is anyway connected with David Yonggi Cho is completely untrue and that seems to have more differences than they have similarities.

The secret of Yoido Church

I believe the key to the church growth in South Koroa was not any one thing. They realized that as well. They used anything that would work to grow. Cell ministry was a tool but it was not the tool. The focus was always on the gospel of the Kingdom being preached to the lost and dying world.

If pastors burned for the lost like they do in Seoul, we would see much more of a harvest in our cities than we do. They also have never settled for what they have. They see the harvest from what is the field still, not what is already in the barn.

Something that many miss is that they have not won the nation of South Korea or even the city of Seoul. While they have over 800,000 members; most people in Souel are still on a bobsled to hell. They are still going to hell without the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Yiodo Church still has work to do.

Pentecostals are blood washed, not brainwashed

I am a Pentecostal. I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to save, heal, deliver, and fill. I am washed by the blood of Jesus but I am finding too are closer to brainwashed. This is very concerning to me.

This is one reason I raise questions about World Revival Church in Kansas City and even IHOP University but it goes alot better than that. I am finding alot of saints that just can’t think logically about the scriptures and the things of the Spirit.

One group thinks they are Stanley Horton and think the trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Bible. They wouldn’t know the power of God if it hit them in the face. They are Pentecostal that would find a problem with the Azusa Street Revival! They would condemn anything that was not dead and lifeless theology.

The other group is just following whatever they hear. They hardly open their bible. They perfer to get their theology from Trinity Broadcasting Network and Daystar. Just remember, television ministries will preach anything to get the wallets open. Spots on the networks is not cheap. It is not cheap at all.

John1

Pastors are brianwashed too

Do you follow your pastor? Do you know more about what your pastor teaches than Jesus? When I hear someone saying “Pastor ___ says that…” I tune out. I do not care about what your pastor says or what sermon series you think I should listen to by your pastor. I really don’t. Your pastor did not die for you.

I love listen to teaching quite well. I have hundreds of books on my Kindle. I quote theological books on here quite often too. I want to be a student of the Word as much as you do. However, I will never make my theology a collection of great quotes from Bill Johnson, Mike Bickle and Oral Roberts. I love them but they did not die on the Cross.

I love Orals Roberts University. I remember sitting in dozens of chapel services in Christ’s Chapel. I heard some of the greatest voice of revival and Pentecost in our generation. Richard Roberts, Rodney Howard-Browne, Reinhard Bonnke, and Tommy Barnett to name a few.

I also heard some people that don’t have such great theology as well. I remember walking out of the chapel over things said by people like Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, and Fred Price. Sorry, I do not have Rolls Royce faith today, Fred.

If I took everything I heard people proclaim from the platform at chapel, I would be one confused guy. I would believe that prosperity was for be to get 4 houses and also believe that living as simple as possible was the biblical way.

My point is living by pastor’s sermon will make you one confused, crazy mess. You have to make sure you are living for Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit; not the teaching of your favorite televangelist on Trinity Broadcasting Network.

UNITED STATES - AUGUST 29: Former Gov. Mike Huckabee, R-Ark., addresses the Republican National Convention in the Tampa Bay Times Forum on the night Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wisc., republican vice-presidential nominee, delivered a speech to the crowd. (Photo By Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call)

Be a Pentecostal, not a Republican

I am a Pentecostal. I am a Republican. I am not a Republican because I am a Pentecostal. One has nothing to do with the other. Jesus is not into political parties anyways.

When people try to tell me that they are o a party because God told them this or that; I see red flags coming up. You might hold your views based on your faith (as I do) but that does not mean God told you to be a member of the Republican party.

Gun Rights is a constitutional issue; it is not a biblical issue. God did not make the second amendment the 11th commandment back in 1776.  I believe in the second amendment because it is right and it is what our Founding Fathers envision; not what Jesus said.

When Christians make constitutional rights into biblical issues, all we do is look stupid to the liberals. Stand for what you believe and that can be an expression of your faith but it is not your faith directly.

When we mix them up, we look brainwashed, and only make Barack Obama look right about clinging to the bible and guns.

Being a Pentecostal does not mean we throw out logic and reasoning. Part of worship is with all your mind. That means you engage people with logic.

intellectual-property1

Pentecostals need to learn how to think.

Did I say that? I did. Paul told us to be ready to give reason for hope that lives within us. “The Bible says so” is not reasoning either. If we want to be effective in witnessing, we better rethink how we come across and quit being brainwashed by preachers.

We need to learn how to think, not what to think.

That means we have to start thinking about how to engage people on a mental level, not just a spiritual level. This is why I think a required reading of every bible school student should be Evidence that demands a verdict by Josh McDowell and Why Jesus? by Ravi Zacharias. They might be boring but they would do us a great service.

Being able to engage people with knowledge, not just words of knowledge will only make us more effective in our witness to a world around us that is growing to be more liberal and believe in atheism. “God said” is not going to cut it any more. Not in the 21st century. The Post-modern world is here.

Having knowledge on many subjects will only make us better Pentecostals. As a computer programmer, student of history, and former boxer; I have a much more well rounded approach to be a witness. Knowing the twisted world of boxing, I can do more than tell them they are going to hell. I can relate to them and reach to them with the power of the Holy Spirit.

I have been where they have been. I know the corruption in the boxing sense. I know about the partying, the drugs, the drinking, the womanizing. I know what exactly they think about Christians. As a result, I know how to engage them and bring them to the foot of the Cross.

Please, don’t be brainwashed but be blood washed!

Why Missions is failing

Jesus gave us no less than six texts about what our orders were forward. They are found in Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:15-20, Luke 24:49, John 14 and Acts 1:7-8.

What is in comments with the text and what is the main message he has? In all by Matthew, the message is about healing the sick, raising the dead, casting the devils and preaching the gospel. Only Matthew missed the boat somehow. Continue reading…